View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:05 pm



Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Lattice prototype, and more 
Author Message
DARKie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:09 am
Posts: 1978
Location: IA
Post Lattice prototype, and more
"Sneak peek of new hex adjacency graph for Indar and a bit more!

Many of you have requested that we take a serious look at the shortfalls of our territory control, influence and base connectivity in order to ensure we're routing players into great fights and encouraging a better overall battle flow. We've taken that feedback very seriously and have been working behind the scenes on a few different ideas to make that desire a reality, most of which have been inspired by ideas from the community - including this one that we're ultimately choosing to move forward with. Many of you probably saw a tweet that I sent out several days ago showing the first steps towards limiting the connectivity between regions. I'm going to share a bit more progress and talk a bit about what our plan is for this, answer a few FAQs and talk a bit about how and when you can help with this.

First of all, here's a complete map of Indar with the current prototype connectivity that we're working with.

Image


And here's a slightly more zoomed in image of a specific area:

Image


What we're doing here, in a nutshell, is reducing the number of adjacent territories from an average of around 6 to an average of around 3. Smaller outposts will have 2-3 connections in general, larger "hub" regions will have 3-5. "But, why?" you may ask. We see several benefits to doing this which have also been brought up by many of your fellow players who are advocating for some of these changes:

  • This Lane / Corridor approach means that rather than 5 different targets you can attack next or fall back to when defeated, we've got a more limited set of locations to fall back to. This will hopefully encourage fights to progress more often from outpost to outpost instead of "dispersing" after a large battle as often happens today.
  • Defenders will have a better idea of what targets attackers will be gunning for next, that predictability should hopefully encourage more active defense of outposts and facilities, as well as allow for proactive deployment of combat engineering.
  • Tactical severing of supply lines and base benefits will be more feasible as well as more understandable.

Along with this change we'll be adding & experimenting with several other features to both support and augment the changes to base connectivity:

  • Making roads, bridges, etc follow the connectivity more logically than is displayed in the above map - this will involve changes to the connectivity above as well as some changes to Indar's layout.
  • You'll also notice that each of the 9 primary facilities are now surrounded by 3 regions that used to be the "Forward Spawn" outposts, those will be turning into full fledged outposts and will be the only connectivity to the facility "core", which we hope adds a bit more back-and-forth to facility capture.
  • Standardizing capture times - influence and # of players on the control point will no longer cause the capture time to fluxuate so defenders can have a better timebox to gather reinforcements or set up their next line of defense.
  • Making facilities which are under capture contention no longer provide adjacency for capturing other territories. If you are playing TR and own Xenotech Labs but it is being captured by the NC, you will not be able to use it's connection to to Crossroads to begin capturing Crossroads until you've secured Xenotech.
  • Enhancements to the Biolab and Amp station base benefits to make them WORTH cutting off.
  • Showing more info on the map including:
    • Generator status on facilities
    • SCU status on facilities
    • Friendly as well as enemy troop populations for each region
    • Capture progress and time remaining on the map (in addition to the region "tooltip")

Now, before you start posting "Why isn't X connected to Y, it's connected to Z but that looks dumb!", this is just a first pass on the connectivity, and our next step is getting this played by you guys so we can figure out if 2-3 is the right number of connections or if 3-4 is better, or maybe 1-2! We won't know until you guys get a chance to really PLAY IT. Now, this is still at least several weeks from going live... however...

Within the next week or so (fingers crossed!) we will launch our new Public Test Server. Once we have the Test Server up we will be putting this current iteration of the hex connectivity on there and asking you guys to come play it and let us know how it works. From there we will be making modifications, finalizing the plan for the Indar layout, integrating the other two continents into this flow, and iterating on the other features I mentioned above as well as tuning capture times, rewards, etc. We've been working on a plan to get a Public Test Server up and running for a while now and we'll have more details about how you can access the server as we get a bit closer.

As always, we're very interested in hearing feedback on this, positive, negative or neutral. We couldn't be making this game without you, our amazing community and your ideas and feedback.

Thank you, look forward to hearing the feedback on this system!

-
mh"

Source: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/inde ... re.103900/

_________________
Find me on Discord: ObsidianOne#2697


Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:36 am
Profile
DARKie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:40 pm
Posts: 1447
Location: Just North of Maine...Eh
Post Re: Lattice prototype, and more
a test server and and lattice system and more defense? Holy Planetside Batman! I'll be testing it out when they put it up, hopefully they do some more optimizations soon too cause the game has been running with low fps on my PC for months now when i use to be getting 70-80 fps.

_________________
Image

ALTS
DrunkElmo-TR Waterson
BlackVenomX- NC Connery


Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:18 am
Profile
DARKie

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:47 pm
Posts: 968
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post Re: Lattice prototype, and more
DarkVenom wrote:
a test server and and lattice system and more defense? Holy Planetside Batman! I'll be testing it out when they put it up, hopefully they do some more optimizations soon too cause the game has been running with low fps on my PC for months now when i use to be getting 70-80 fps.


My first impression of the patch was wow, they are really making advancements. I think

Yea, the patch last night was the first where the FPS drop and problems were really bad for me. Got into a few larger battles and my FPS was affecting my aim something fierce... It also seemed like the game was weird as far as graphics go. Not necessarily bad per-say... but weird, or different in some way.

I'm not a real fan of the Combined map right now. I assume it'll get better as I get used to it... but my first impression wasn't the best. The changes to the Mag were noticeable by the end of the night. Seemed a lot more responsive on hills and the like.

Overall though... I definitely feel like they are heading in the right direction (maybe two steps forward, one step back... but at least there is noticeable gains)

_________________
Image

Active (PS2)
Calisai (Tech Test/Alpha/Beta/Release) - Mattherson (Youtube Channel)

Retired (PS1)
Calisai (Emmy VS)
Calisi (Markov TR)
Calisi (Konried TR)


Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:28 pm
Profile WWW
DARKie
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:02 pm
Posts: 45
Post Re: Lattice prototype, and more
I must be the only one that is not yet crazy about this Lattice system. I feel all it does is force zerg on zerg and hurts the smaller groups.


Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:33 pm
Profile
DARKie

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:47 pm
Posts: 968
Location: Sycamore, IL
Post Re: Lattice prototype, and more
Woapalanne wrote:
I must be the only one that is not yet crazy about this Lattice system. I feel all it does is force zerg on zerg and hurts the smaller groups.


Yea, there is that possibility. Numbers will always be able to trump a smaller force. I am reminded of a few times when we were trying to defend Amerish though. We kept trying to engage that one outfit, but they kept hopping to the next base and taking it before we could catch up to them. If there was at a little bit more linear paths for them to take, it might have been easier to jump ahead, setup D and have a good fight.

Depending on how much they put in as far as supply lines (Gens?, being able to cut off links... etc) There may be more special ops available for us to do. Also, knowing where the Zerg is probably heading helps in being able to avoid it, or funnel it into zerg v zerg in places... This Lattice prototype shouldn't be considered the end-all be-all though. Only a small step towards the end goal.

Either way, It's going to be a rough learning period.

_________________
Image

Active (PS2)
Calisai (Tech Test/Alpha/Beta/Release) - Mattherson (Youtube Channel)

Retired (PS1)
Calisai (Emmy VS)
Calisi (Markov TR)
Calisi (Konried TR)


Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:31 pm
Profile WWW
DARKie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:59 pm
Posts: 167
Location: The Frozen Wastelands of Minn-ee-Sohhhhhhhhtaaaa....
Post Re: Lattice prototype, and more
I've posted much of the below @PSU and the PS2 forums. If it sounds kinda harsh I apologize, it's not directed at anyone here.

Woapalanne wrote:
I must be the only one that is not yet crazy about this Lattice system. I feel all it does is force zerg on zerg and hurts the smaller groups.


No you're not the only one. I HATE that they're putting in a lattice system for base captures. IMO the lattice unnecessarily limits player choice, herds empire assaults along a limited number of attack vectors, reduces the number of strategic avenues available, and takes one more step towards repetitive gameplay. Adjacency, terrain, facility types, and base benefits already direct a lot of the flow of battle. We don't need more artificial rules in place to do our tactical thinking for us and force the fight down even fewer avenues than we have now.

If you look at the zoomed map, you can see two great examples of why I despise the idea of a capture lattice. If you're fighting from the SW warpgate, there's NO reason whatsoever why you shouldn't be able to attack Xenotech Lab right after capping Regent Rock to the SW. Both the flow of the terrain and the road system make it the next logical base to attack. But in that iteration of the lattice, there's no link, so you can't attack it. Same thing with going from Snake Ravine to Allatum, or from Crossroads to either Ti Alloys or the Crown. The map flow encourages it, but the lattice prevents it. STOOOOOOPID. :D

I know the lattice is a work in progress and that they plan on making road/terrain changes to Indar to facilitate whatever lattice they design, but I fear such stooopid lattice choices will be inevitable since it's being made by a Dev team with no military background that I know of and that has a strong tendency to get an idea in their head and stick with it regardless of how much evidence there might be that shows it's a bad idea. At least they seem to be learning somewhat, and do sometimes listen to the playerbase. :D

Calisai wrote:
Yea, there is that possibility. Numbers will always be able to trump a smaller force. I am reminded of a few times when we were trying to defend Amerish though. We kept trying to engage that one outfit, but they kept hopping to the next base and taking it before we could catch up to them. If there was at a little bit more linear paths for them to take, it might have been easier to jump ahead, setup D and have a good fight.


Ahh, yes, the Whack-a-Mole Syndrome..... 8) Where bases sometimes change hands so fast that they're capped before the enemy even realizes that territory got invaded. We also see a lot of ghost capping, with zergs taking the path of least resistance and avoiding each other so they can instead get easy XP by capping empty bases. Putting in a capture lattice would stem both of these problems somewhat, but it's an arbitrary solution that doesn't fix the underlying problems.

The Whack-a-Mole Syndrome is caused by lack of available strategic intel, lack of proper command and communication tools at our disposal, and the piss-poor defensibility of most facilities against a vehicle assault. And there's so much ghosting because there's very little incentive for most people to actually defend anything. You get no XP for defense, most facilities have craptastic defenses and so will get rolled once the defending aircraft and tanks get wiped out (which you can't even pull at most facilities), it's difficult to relay to people not in our platoon or outfit that a facility is even under attack, and if you're not in the actual base being attacked you can't tell if there's 2 defenders there or 200 so people are reluctant to spend time having to go there and check it out only to find the base is either perfectly safe or being rolled. In either case it's a wasted trip.

So instead of a lattice, I'd much rather they do things like:

- making all facility hacks visible on the cont map without having to mouseover the territory
- making facilities more defensible and thus harder to backhack/easier to resecure to begin with
- including the ability to see Ally Activity for the whole cont (I hear this is in the works), or better yet, a tactical overlay like PS1
- letting us see gen and cap point status for every friendly territory on the cont map, not just the one you're in.
- letting the chat window stay visible on the screen so you don't accidentally miss important intel relayed via text
- letting anyone with Command Chat cert use /Orders, not just SLs
- Giving us a REAL Command chat again.

Such tools give players the ability to make faster and smarter choices, letting them better deploy troops for offenses, resecures, etc, but still leaving said choices ultimately up to the players. Make facilities more defensible and give us better communication tools and strategic intel and you'll get less Blitzkrieg and have a slowdown of advancing forces while still keeping the current hex-adjacency flanking freedom. I.E. - better game flow. We need better strategic tools to make reading the map easier and more informative, better communication tools to relay this intel to others, and better incentives to actually defend facilities in the first place. IMO what we don't need is more arbitrary restrictions that force us to go in certain directions. It's much better to give us the tools we need to make better choices but still keep the choice in our hands.

I do kinda like the idea of putting in a few neutral territories though, which can't be hacked by anyone and so must be circumvented. It allows for a lsmall amount of battle flow control without being so restrictive as a lattice system is likely to be. Here's a good explanation of what I mean: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W-yOT5EgYvU
[/url]
Calisai wrote:
Depending on how much they put in as far as supply lines (Gens?, being able to cut off links... etc) There may be more special ops available for us to do. Also, knowing where the Zerg is probably heading helps in being able to avoid it, or funnel it into zerg v zerg in places... This Lattice prototype shouldn't be considered the end-all be-all though. Only a small step towards the end goal.

Either way, It's going to be a rough learning period.



I love the idea of having a supply line lattice in place for those spec ops opportunities. It will enrich the metagame and give us smaller outfits more options to affect the flow of battle without getting caught up in the Zerg Undertow (Yes Fed I like that term). TBH I actually like every other idea listed by Higby in the OP.

_________________
Do Not Fear the DARK, Fear What Lies Within...
Image
Erendil / SirAlydon-E

Guiding Smurfs and Elmos Into the Light Since June 2003


Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:02 am
Profile
DARKie
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:03 pm
Posts: 2598
Location: oHIo
Post Re: Lattice prototype, and more
SirAlydon wrote:
So instead of a lattice, I'd much rather they do things like:

- making all facility hacks visible on the cont map without having to mouseover the territory
- making facilities more defensible and thus harder to backhack/easier to resecure to begin with
- including the ability to see Ally Activity for the whole cont (I hear this is in the works), or better yet, a tactical overlay like PS1
- letting us see gen and cap point status for every friendly territory on the cont map, not just the one you're in.
- letting the chat window stay visible on the screen so you don't accidentally miss important intel relayed via text
- letting anyone with Command Chat cert use /Orders, not just SLs
- Giving us a REAL Command chat again.

I love the idea of having a supply line lattice in place for those spec ops opportunities. It will enrich the metagame and give us smaller outfits more options to affect the flow of battle without getting caught up in the Zerg Undertow (Yes Fed I like that term). TBH I actually like every other idea listed by Higby in the OP.


You just described Planetside. Seriously, read my post in the Officers forum with my issues with PS2, and then reread your points made above. Someone mentioned having timers on base hacks, which I think is a "MUST HAVE" in PS2, the only thing you left off was being able to bind at a friendly base. Wouldnt that be a nice way to check on your bases, instead of flying all over the place?

_________________
Image
Image
^ Updated 10/21 ^


Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:11 pm
Profile WWW
DARKie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:59 pm
Posts: 167
Location: The Frozen Wastelands of Minn-ee-Sohhhhhhhhtaaaa....
Post Re: Lattice prototype, and more
OneBadDude wrote:
SirAlydon wrote:
So instead of a lattice, I'd much rather they do things like:

- making all facility hacks visible on the cont map without having to mouseover the territory
- making facilities more defensible and thus harder to backhack/easier to resecure to begin with
- including the ability to see Ally Activity for the whole cont (I hear this is in the works), or better yet, a tactical overlay like PS1
- letting us see gen and cap point status for every friendly territory on the cont map, not just the one you're in.
- letting the chat window stay visible on the screen so you don't accidentally miss important intel relayed via text
- letting anyone with Command Chat cert use /Orders, not just SLs
- Giving us a REAL Command chat again.

I love the idea of having a supply line lattice in place for those spec ops opportunities. It will enrich the metagame and give us smaller outfits more options to affect the flow of battle without getting caught up in the Zerg Undertow (Yes Fed I like that term). TBH I actually like every other idea listed by Higby in the OP.


You just described Planetside. Seriously, read my post in the Officers forum with my issues with PS2, and then reread your points made above. Someone mentioned having timers on base hacks, which I think is a "MUST HAVE" in PS2, the only thing you left off was being able to bind at a friendly base. Wouldnt that be a nice way to check on your bases, instead of flying all over the place?


Heh, yeah that was kinda the point. Obviously u and I are both preaching to the choir here since all of us DARKies recognize a lot of the same issues w/ PS2.

At least it looks like they're taking steps towards fixing the problems we see:


The below changes are slated for April: from http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/april-improvements-to-strategic-communication.106421/


Display of "friendly activity" on the map similar to "enemy activity" view
Add facility capture progress and timer to the map
Replace influence pie chart on the region tooltip with population % chart
Add estimated time to capture to the region tooltip
Add timers for secondary objectives displayed on the map and the HUD

_________________
Do Not Fear the DARK, Fear What Lies Within...
Image
Erendil / SirAlydon-E

Guiding Smurfs and Elmos Into the Light Since June 2003


Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:43 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 8 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Copyright © 2014, Multi-Dimensional Visual Echo. All rights reserved.
Powered by hamsters on treadmills drinking coffee © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.